Today’s podcast is part of a new series on Growth Tactics, where we talk to digital businesses that are winning. And dig into what worked and what didn’t.
This episode is an interview with Ashley Dudarenok, the founder of Alarice (a China-focused digital marketing agency) and ChoZan (a China digital transformation consultancy.
Ashley (www.ashleydudarenok.com) is a naturalized Chinese serial entrepreneur, award winning digital expert and book author, recognized by Thinkers50 as a “Guru on fast-evolving trends in China”. Ashley and her team help world’s top companies and brands to learn for and from China. She’s also a sought after professional speaker covering topics around customer centricity, the future of retail, technology in action. Ashley is the author of 11 books on digital China.
Here are some contact links:
- LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleydudarenok/
- YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/ashleydudarenok
- Twitter/X https://twitter.com/AshleyDudarenok
It was a fun discussion with quite a few valuable lessons.
Here is an article summarizing my 5 lessons from the conversation.
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Related articles:
From the Concept Library, concepts for this article are:
- China
- Growth
- Digital Marketing
From the Company Library, companies for this article are:
- ChoZan
- Alarice
———transcription below
Jeffrey Towson: [00:00:00] Welcome, welcome, everybody.
My name is Jeff Towson and this is the Tech Strategy Podcast from TechMoat Consulting. Today’s podcast is a segment we call Growth Tactics, sort of growth hacks, where we talk to business leaders who are winning in digital and try and learn how they’re doing it, what’s working. What’s not. Our guest today, Ashley Dudarenok who is founder of Chozan which is a China focused digital transformation training and consulting company.
And then there’s another company which is Alarice, which is a China focused digital marketing company. So, you know, a really cool synergy between digital marketing. going into China, Asia, and then digital transformation, training, consulting, keynotes, things like that. So really, really cool business model.
And with that, oh, let me give you a little bit of background. I know that’s not an awesome introduction, but Ashley is [00:01:00] originally from Russia, but now lives in China for most of her career. And really, that’s where she’s based. Hong Kong, the business is based there. Did a business administration degree at Chongqing University, and then shortly after that, you know, founded the first company, Alarice, and then shortly after, Chozan.
So, I apologize for that mediocre at best introduction. Ashley, welcome to the podcast, and please feel free to correct everything I just said bio wise there.
Ashley Dudarenok: Woohoo. Thank you so much Jeff. Fantastic to be on the show. It was a good introduction. One biggest correction is that I’m actually a naturalized Chinese I naturalized a few years ago and one, I’m one of the few people that are. Born abroad but naturalized as a Chinese citizen. So, I carry a Chinese nationality and a Hong Kong passport.
And business wise indeed I run a multiple kind of businesses across Asia from projects in the F& B and, [00:02:00] um, hospitality and consulting and all that. But online, I am known as the China digital kind of “go to” person. And indeed, the Chozan and Alarice are the two main businesses, China related.
So, it was a good introduction. And beyond all that, of course, yourself being a thought leader, you also have a large community. You’ve also written books. So, I’ve written a couple of books as well on digital China. And I also run a large community of the China watchers on both YouTube and LinkedIn and other social media platforms.
Jeffrey Towson: Use is China sores. For, you know, the China Dinosaurs. You’re not there yet, but, you know, in another, another 10 or 20 years, you’ll get with us older, older crowd who were here way back in the you know, well, you actually grew up, so it’s a little different. But yeah, the sort of China Watcher community advisor which is always exciting.
Okay first, maybe if we could talk about if you could, in terms of your business I mean, within [00:03:00] Chozan and Alares sort of, how would you describe that in terms of, you know, how is it different? You know, are there sort of, you know, growing your own business as opposed to help, you know, in addition helping clients grow their businesses into China, into Asia?
A lot of multinationals and, you know, foreign companies, obviously. How is it different? Like, how would you sort of distinguish your company from others?
Ashley Dudarenok: so, when it comes to Chozan, this is where I currently spend most of my time. It is a consultancy that doesn’t only tell you how to be successful in China, but also helps you understand what are the lessons to learn from China. In the past 30 years, China has walked a long, but a very steep kind of road to digitalization, and we can learn from both successes and failures.
So, when it comes to Chozan, there are four major problems that we help people solve. Number one is research and strategy. So, there’s a lot of misunderstanding about Chinese [00:04:00] consumers. There’s a lot of interest, for example, from tech community abroad about what is actually happening when it comes to new retail or live streaming or EVs or some sort of other technology in action in China.
And in order for us to operate. And being informed, we need to also get the piece of the puzzle from China. So that’s research and strategy. When it comes to consulting beyond just consulting and answering people’s questions related to, again, learning from or. We also bring experts. So, for example, you are a YouTube and you want to launch live streaming in your own market or in the global market, then you want to speak with the people that operate live streaming, you know in the China space, be it quite shows, executives or bite dance or others.
And we can talk to them. Also do this consulting. We can bring in experts from the market, subject of matter, that could help you get inspired again. But what works in the whole market and some of these lessons [00:05:00] can be applied. And beyond all that, I think our coolest product right now is the tours or they called learning expeditions to China.
They’re all fully tailored. So, it’s not that individuals can join in a group and then just do some basic or to the left or the right. Kind of visit, but they’re all very tailored and typically what sets us apart is that board members or board members minus one senior, senior executives making those visits and ultimately they come for different reasons.
Sometimes they want to understand China better in order to support their China team. Or make investments, yeah, understand whether they should invest, how invest, what invest. So, they want to really be, have their skin in the game, be in the market, soak in all that. And also, very often they come to China, again, to see what’s happening on the ground in order to inspire their global strategies, their global growth, or their global innovation.
So, it goes both ways. So that’s what I think sets us apart when it comes to Chozan. And when it comes to LREs, we’ve been [00:06:00] there forever. When it comes to China, digital marketing space, this space is changing so fast that I think there’s a lot of great companies out there. Everybody has their niche. And I think everybody’s awesome.
Yeah,
Jeffrey Towson: no, that’s great. I’m in a related space and, you know, the joke I always say is like, you know, if you’re dealing with, say, a European company or a Brazilian company, you know, they’re probably not planning to go into China. I’m like, yeah, don’t worry about it. They’re coming to you. So, you know, it’s, it’s useful to understand what Sheehan is doing and Temu is doing and TikTok, because they’re going to show up.
So, it’s yeah, it’s, it’s a great space to learn from if nothing else. My, my, my own opinion is it’s kind of the epicenter for innovation in certain categories like e commerce. Pretty much smartphone that’s B2C is going to be faster and more innovative coming out of China, Asia. So, it kind of gets you ahead of the curve, [00:07:00] which I find helpful.
A lot of lessons that we talk about. Okay. So, let’s move on to sort of the main topic, which is, all right, I don’t have a great term for this growth tricks, growth tactics either for your clients or your own business. I mean, how did you get the growth? I mean, how do you go from, you know, for you, for literally startups you know, to a couple, you know, several successful businesses with, Digital businesses.
So, you know, it’s winning online. How do you get there? What did you find worked for you? If there was a short list of things that helped you get traction for any one of the businesses you want to talk about? No,
Ashley Dudarenok: You always grow with your customer. So, what’s, if you stagnate, if the market is stagnating, if people are not pushing you, your clients, your, your industry insiders, then you stop innovating.
Yeah. So, the [00:08:00] first rule then means that you need to be in a market that’s constantly growing. So, for us, it’s easy. We are in let’s say digital transformation consulting, which is constantly evolving because there’s new technologies, there’s new ways of, you know operating a new retail and working with your customer and all that, so it’s developing fast.
Number two, we are in the market that is extremely fast, right? We talk about the China speed, or there’s even a joke that in China, everything happens later, but faster. And this is true. So, we are pushed to grow all the time. And this means that when it comes to growth, we are able to you know, try different things, succeed fast, fail fast.
We are able to on different fronts, such as marketing try different platforms, both in West and East. You know, in China, Mainland we can also on the client side [00:09:00] help solve different problems and learn from that experience because again, just the industry itself carries a lot of that energy and the clients themselves carry.
So, if I have to summarize let’s look at our own growth and I would say for us, as a startup, yeah, you said as a smaller company that started with literally just myself and right now grew into 50 people with offices across Hong Kong, Shanghai and Shenzhen. So, with us, what worked really, really well was you need to build a personal brand, which means you start with a thought leadership.
You start as an expert. In other words, as a small business, people do not really trust you unless you have a lot of experience, but how can you get experience if you just started, right? So, then you need to appeal to your former experience or you need to appeal to your unique insight that you have.
Great. But then people need to know you like you and trust you. So, you need to put yourself out there as an as a, as a business leader, be it an owner of the business or [00:10:00] the division leader, et cetera, you need to start leadership, you need to build a community around you and that will support your business.
So, for us, that worked really, really well. The second thing, of course, is again, marketing wise, the platforms. Platforms, for example, such as when I started doing thought leadership, when we started you know, kind of growing the business, we’re like, okay what platforms are there that could support our growth?
And this could be X, or this could be a YouTube, or this could be LinkedIn, or this could be Facebook, or this could be IG. I tried for four months, every single platform, and we’ve Put out content every single day. And it was my face on it. So, it was a full-time job. And after four months, this is in my experience, also a good time to have enough data to say, Oh, does it work?
Or does it not work? So, after four months, we saw that, wow, LinkedIn is actually very organic. You get views without, you don’t need to boost it, but Facebook, for example. And after IG was acquired by Meta, also IG, you need to pay to play. for example, [00:11:00] right now, YouTube is very powerful, but not through long form videos.
YouTube is very powerful as a growth and hack tool. If you use shorts, you can reach millions of people if you use shorts under one minute, but if you use long form videos, then you need to go through Keywords. You need to ultimately research what are the keywords that have been searched on YouTube, what are people willing to learn, and then typically you need to make your, I don’t know, cover photo very clickbait in order to get any views.
With Shorts, it’s a lot, a lot easier to grow, to expand, etc. But of course, the content, the quality of followers are all dropping a lot. So, the platform, you need to be smart about the platform to grow your business. If you are a You know, a smaller enterprise or a bigger enterprise does not matter. You always need to put yourself out there, right?
And if you are not willing to put your face, right, as an owner out there, that that’s a pity. I would always encourage people to be Richard Branson rather than Virgin Atlantic. Yeah, so develop Richard Branson’s [00:12:00] name. But if you can’t, then okay. Virgin Atlantic. And after that, go into the platform, try out what works, what doesn’t, and focus on the ones that are a lot more organic.
Number three is the content. Of course, the content that you put out for us, it was fantastic because again, it’s an expert content. We’re in a very niche market. It’s not that people wake up every day, let’s say somewhere in France or in Buenos Aires and say, oh my God, let me learn about China’s digitalization.
It’s a very niche topic. So, for us, expert content was extremely important and we, up until today, publish every single day on platforms such as Let’s say LinkedIn, right? And over years, people are watching you over months and years and weeks are watching and when they have the need, when they have this inspiration spark, when they have this pain point related to your area of expertise, they come to you.
You’re the first person they think about. And that’s exactly what you want to create. And the last one, I think it’s very important [00:13:00] while digital is great. It’s very, very important to have also your community offline. So I travel quite a lot and whenever I travel to you know, to, to London, Chengdu or Puerto Rico, wherever it is, I always meet the community, invite people for dinner, have genuine conversations with them because You know, it’s not only for business, but it’s also for you to understand what’s happening in the industry.
It’s for you to connect with people on a different level. And that always in my experience, one way or another contributes to your growth. In this, in this area and in business. So that’s our experience when it comes to some of the growth tricks and tactics. And when it comes to clients, very often our clients when, again, for example, they do China digital marketing, right?
If we talk about Ellery’s business, then it is the same thing. Digital marketing is all about having the right module or the right [00:14:00] front person. Who is representing the brand, right? Be it a live streamer or rep of the company, which are called KOC, Key Opinion Sales, or it is the actual kind of blogger that represents, you know, the product.
And then having the right platform, the platforms that are popular in China today, where you can actually get conversions and you can have growth. They are Douyin, right? The Chinese version of TikTok, and also Xiaohongshu, or we call Little Red Book, or it’s called Red. So, these are typically, platforms where you get that growth as a B2C brand.
And beyond that, the content right now, unfortunately, when it comes to the China space, content is a bit more complicated. Previously, we could showcase our character through social media content. We could be a bit, I don’t want to say scandalous, but you know, on social media, you always want to showcase again, your character and be human.
But right now, because a lot of brands and platforms are self-censoring, they don’t want a PR crisis, right? They don’t want. They don’t want to get in [00:15:00] trouble. So, the content is becoming less and less interesting in many ways, and just a bit too sterile. But yeah, content used to be super, super important.
And especially if you could link that content to the hot topic. So, what’s trending in, not just China, China is a big country, but what’s trending in Shanghai today? How can I make my post, my message? Connected with that broader topic that is featured in the media or in on a specific platform et cetera.
And of course, again, the community, but in China on the digital space, the community is coming in a form of a private traffic. So, you have your own private group, right? People connect with you on WeChat, then you put them in a group and then you continue communicating. Because, you know, Paper play in China is very expensive, right?
You, every time you want to reach out to your consumer on Douyin or on Tmall or wherever else you need to pay, but once you loop them in your private traffic. So, in my own business, it is a newsletter, right? It’s something that we own. We own those, those, those. Many, many, many [00:16:00] thousand people’s emails and we can communicate with them whenever we choose to, unless they unsubscribe.
In China, that works as a part of a WeChat group, let’s say, or a Tmall group, etc. And that is the community that you are building. When it comes to the client’s growth that come for Chozan, yeah, very often they, as we said, learn for China, learn from China. They come with research needs or they come with market immersion, or this kind of learning expedition needs or they come for a keynote.
Yeah, they want me to talk to their top leaders about what’s actually happening here. How to learn and how to operate, you know, with it and from it. So typically, these clients grow through partnerships. Very often they come into the market and they see that, oh my God, there’s actually a lot of opportunities to partner up with local firms.
Or very often also get inspired. Their leaders just being in the market, just understanding it better, they get inspired and they can take those inspirations back home and do things differently. We recently had [00:17:00] a team that came to China to see what is considered trendy and hip. And they saw a lot of designs, they saw artists, they met, you know, they met the community that is not related to business.
So, in other words, they were not talking to distributors, right? But they were talking with artists and young people and DJs and all that. And these people took away inspiration. from China for their global collection. So, in other words, they put together clothing and shoes inspired by some of these global trends, including China as a piece of the puzzle.
And the collection is doing very well, very well. And this whole initiative that they had kind of learned from around the world, being inspired by, by different things. They don’t only come to China. They’ve been to many other places in Asia and. Latin America before, et cetera. But this is, I think, a very fit mindset of a global multinational enterprise that actually gets you to constantly [00:18:00] grow and constantly expand.
And once again, to highlight, you always grow with the market, with your customer and the moment the market stagnates, the moment your customers do not push you, you stop innovating. So put yourself in situations where you’re forced to constantly move forward and innovate.
Jeffrey Towson: that’s great. That’s huge. I’ve been taking notes. Let me talk a little bit. Let me ask you a little bit about Private traffic you know, my sort of standard mantra is, look, dealing with the platforms, acquiring customers for the first time, making, you know, connections, a lot of that is outside of our control.
Most of it, and a lot of it’s outside of our control. You know, whatever game Instagram or whatever is creating, we have to play by their rules. But once we convert them into private traffic that’s far more under our control. You know, we can kind of set the rules there. I mean, I would say, like, retention is a game that we sort of set the rules, but growth [00:19:00] and acquisition, no, we’re going to have to play the game that’s out there right now.
Which is kind of always difficult. It’s, you know, it’s always a struggle. What do you think, in terms of private traffic Where we far more control the relationship online than opposed to, say, public platforms. What do you think are the most effective mechanisms there? You mentioned newsletter, emails, community, offline meetings could be considered a form of that.
What do you think works the most effective in that bucket?
Ashley Dudarenok: It really depends on the market because again, in our space, for example, in my own business, newsletter is the most effective one. Why? Because people are all around the world. We have China Watches, very senior executives from the US, from Mexico, from Germany and France, et cetera. And the habits, the habits Typically, let’s call it the [00:20:00] West, yes, outside of, outside of mainland China is people use, typically email as channel for professional communication.
And you are sending them a newsletter. They might not read every newsletter, but you kind of stay on top of their mind. And when they want to check something or they want to, again, they have a question related to your area of expertise, they come to you. There are some markets in Asia where, for example, WhatsApp, online, or KakaoTalk.
is providing that opportunity but it’s a lot more private like if somebody’s on your phone messaging you. So, the same thing in China private traffic is primarily done on platforms such as WeChat. So, it is on your phone and it is communicating with you through groups and yes, you can mute it but it’s still there.
The little annoying red dot that you have not read that message is quite annoying. A lot of people are also right now doing it on platforms such as Telegram, etc. But, if you do it [00:21:00] on the phone, first of all, typically it’s B2C businesses. Number two, it is typically a lot more personalized. So, people are looking for higher personalization and they are looking for opportunities to interact.
Kind of make friends with the brand so that I could resolve my actual problems. So, for example when I’m sitting in Hong Kong and I’m making a doctor’s appointment all of that is done by WhatsApp because I don’t want to call them. I don’t want to explain 10 times. I want to drop a message saying, hey, guys, I want to see my, Dentist and I want to do it that time.
Is it okay or not? Okay. They reply me saying yes. And so, so they help me. It’s kind of a customer service first, but also it can have a function of reminding me that, that the doctor is there, or this service is available for me, or that there is this personalized product available for me right now.
So, all that works. One on one messages. [00:22:00] are more on the customer service and me being a part of the group, as long as it is meaningful, I’m willing to be part of that group. If there is again, enough benefit for me there, otherwise people are just going to unsubscribe. And. I think these are the two major channels to be very honest for keeping a private traffic, either you have emails, or you have somebody’s phone numbers.
Later on, at some other I think in about five, maybe six, seven years, we’re also all going to have AI assistants that are managing our life. So later on, we will for sure have opportunities to have a private traffic where we have access to the people’s personal data. Personal AI assistant, and this assistant will be able to, when appropriate, communicate our insights, messages calls to action, personalized offers, or whatever else to the actual person.
But at this stage, in 2024, we only have emails and we also have ultimately phone numbers to do that. [00:23:00]
Jeffrey Towson: Yeah, I’ve been thinking a lot about this as well, which is Even before generative AI sort of, you know, landed with the boom. You know, there was a lot of discussion of, look, there’s too much content in the world. You know, it’s just everywhere. And I heard, I think it was Joe Tai at Alibaba. He said, you know, the key to that problem is personalization, right?
You have to increasingly personalize anything you’re sending to anyone, which is a massive increase in its value to that person. To compete against a rising tide of endless content. That was kind of the lever he was talking about. But then you get generative AI in there, and suddenly the amount of content is going to go through the roof.
Everybody can create content. So, what I’ve been listening to, like, I think it was Andreessen Horowitz, talked about synth AI versus generative AI. Instead of using These tools to create content. It’ll be more about synthesizing out of the sea of [00:24:00] content, that which is valuable to a particular person.
Ashley Dudarenok: yeah.
Jeffrey Towson: So instead of creating lots and lots of articles, it’ll be more like a chat bot that synthesizes everything out there in a way that’s usable which basically gets you to the agent AI question. So yeah, it looks like we’re heading toward a major change in this whole idea of. You know, put out content put yourself out there and use that to create value for people, whether it’s on the B2C side or on the B2B side.
We’ve been kind of mixing those two in this conversation because obviously you’re doing, you know, for yourself and then also for your clients. I B2B side to be easier.
You know, dealing with companies, you know, more professional services. You know, it’s a lot more usually personal of a relationship as opposed to, say, selling beauty products online to a lot of people around the world.
Yeah, I mean, definitely the game’s going to change. And my own take on that is it’s going to be an [00:25:00] interesting mix of innovation coming out of China, which tends to be very good at the B2C side. But most of the generative AI tools, you know, you could say the U. S. is kind of the leader right now.
China’s number two in coming up fast, but, you know, they’re a bit, maybe a year behind. So, yeah, the game’s going to change. In terms of private traffic, actually, how are we doing on time? Alright, I better finish up here. Let me switch to the other, last question. Okay, so certain tactics, I’ve been taking notes about, you know, what, what has worked for you.
How do you, how do you incorporate in your business the fact that, look, we have to continually experiment and find new things that work? Because the game is going to change. How do you sort of incorporate hunting for the next things that work for growth into, let’s say, weekly or monthly operations of a business?
Ashley Dudarenok: I think it’s important to [00:26:00] count and track everything as much as you can. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a big business or a small business, because data, data, data is going to be something that you can feed into smarter algorithms, much smarter than us, and synthesize knowledge, insight, and actionable, ultimately, data.
Again, change, right? Generate and create that change. So when it comes to marketing side, you, you track the needs, you, you track traffic on your site, the content and the post-performance, the followers, you know, reports, we produce a lot of reports or downloads to this reports, where are they going, et cetera, et cetera.
And. You also, besides just tracking your own operations, you need to look at the business side and you look at things like, okay, the needs that are coming what are they coming for? When it comes to the clients, what are they changing need? What are they asking for? What kind of vocabulary are they using?
How often do they. Do they change their strategy or review it or et cetera? And then you also need to look at the [00:27:00] industry players, right? Their products, their collaborations, their strategic moves, and all of that can be done online look at that content, look at, you know, how they’re communicating internally, externally, you also shall be very much in tuned with your own team.
What is the efficiency? What kind of end result is being produced? We, for example, know that in our business, the superstars, the people that are really, really good at their jobs, they’re about 10 times more efficient and effective and productive and whatnot than others. So, you want more, obviously, superstars, right?
How do you increase that? And you look at the satisfaction, right? So, what’s, what’s important for them? What is the satisfaction rate? Pre pandemic, post pandemic has completely different matrix right now. Flexibility is very important, right? Working with great companies, fun companies is important because it’s an element of growth, et cetera.
So, you do need to have a system which pretty much is I do it through values in our own company. So, we have four values and as a [00:28:00] part of those values, we know that we need to be, you know, excellent and constantly growing. And we need to be, you know, leading the industry, but also supporting the industry.
So, it’s a very inclusive kind of value. And we need to be tracking things because we want to benchmark ourselves against harder numbers. So. The system comes through either let’s say values or it comes through hard systems where you have let’s say weekly meetings or daily updates on certain matrix or you install very strong software or let’s say CRM systems or whatnot right where your whole enterprise is operating on this cloud service which Again, could be easier or could be a, just a hurdle because again, many of these softwares are not updated enough and they’re not fluid and, and flexible enough, but find your way through culture, find your way through tech [00:29:00] set up and find your way.
Most importantly, here’s the interpretation. How do you, so after you collected all this information, that insight that, that sentiment, how do you actually apply it in your business? And this is the. Job of a top person, right? It’s the job of the department head. It’s the job of the leader of the company where you come in, you get the input, and then you also explain and tell the story.
So, what does it mean for us right now? And as I’ve mentioned earlier today we like to take action fast. So, if we thought about, if we got an insight in the morning, then in the afternoon, we are implementing it. And this speed of action, right? You succeed fast, you learn fast, you also fail fast, and you move on to the next thing.
So, this is this is a mindset and this is a job of a leader to actually take these insights and make them actionable, apply them in business immediately. And of course, go back again, look at the whole process and try to [00:30:00] simplify it as much as possible. Simplify the whole thing. Make it. Easy to do it next time, faster and more effective.
So that’s, that’s the person that we applied. And I think it applies to small businesses, large businesses with various resources as well.
Jeffrey Towson: No, that’s fantastic. I think that’s a great point to end on. Yeah, it’s I, I, one of my standard jokes is when I deal with clients. I’m like, look, if you want to know what to do on a daily basis, just get faster. Like, it’s simple, but it really does make it do everything. Now, now the trick is like, do everything faster?
No. I mean, you don’t have to speed walk around the office or anything. But, yeah, a couple key activities, if you just do certain things faster. Rate of learning rate of experimentation simplification. That’s going to take you quite a long way over time. It’s sort of I published a book with McKinsey last year about five [00:31:00] rules for digital.
And number one was just get faster. Like. Like, don’t underestimate it as a, as a lever that really does work but you got to, you got to focus on a couple things. You can’t be fast at everything. You can be fast at three to five things but yeah.
Ashley Dudarenok: And as they say, you know, ordinary things consistently done produce extraordinary results. So, if you are doing it consistently speed is important. Yes. But even if you do, it’s like this law, but you do things consistently, ordinary things consistently done produce extraordinary results. So just have the right mindset, have the right systems, do it.
Referring back to your joke earlier there is this meme online where the doctor and the patient are sitting, facing each other and the patient says, oh my God, doctor, I want to be happy. What shall I take? And the doctor looks at him and says, action. So, the same here, just take that action. Absolutely.
Jeffrey Towson: 35 [00:32:00] minutes here. Alright, with that, let’s let me finish up here. Thank you so much for Being on the podcast, what’s the best way for people to learn more about what you’re doing in your business if they want to follow up?
Ashley Dudarenok: Check me out on LinkedIn. It’s Ashley Dudarenok on LinkedIn. And my DMs are open. If you want to message me and say, hi please do so. I will be very happy to, Chat about business projects and answer your questions.
Jeffrey Towson: Okay, great. Thanks so much.
Ashley Dudarenok: Thank you, Jeff, for having me. Such a fantastic initiative. Exciting! Woo! Let’s grow together!
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I write, speak and consult about how to win (and not lose) in digital strategy and transformation.
I am the founder of TechMoat Consulting, a boutique consulting firm that helps retailers, brands, and technology companies exploit digital change to grow faster, innovate better and build digital moats. Get in touch here.
My book series Moats and Marathons is one-of-a-kind framework for building and measuring competitive advantages in digital businesses.
Note: This content (articles, podcasts, website info) is not investment advice. The information and opinions from me and any guests may be incorrect. The numbers and information may be wrong. The views expressed may no longer be relevant or accurate. Investing is risky. Do your own research.
